> Typically, government struggle is between the rights of the nation vs. the > rights of the state. Sometimes, and with increasing frequency, the rights of > both the nation and the state trample the rights of the individual. In this case its a logical modern world extension of what Marx realised. Only its a realisation by large corporates that - If they use patents they can own the means of production completely and shut out the small people - If they use libel lawsuits against those who criticise they own the freedom of speech. Especially if they also own all the newspapers - That the critical thing today is owning the means of distribution. That's ultimately IMHO what the battle over online music, Microsoft .net and so forth is about. Back relevant to the list its precisely what all the battles about controlling online video formats is. Whoever owns the format that everyone uses effectively owns or leases every cinema in town. Historically film companies have used patents to say "We don't think your film is suitable for our media" and to enforce draconian government agreed censorship rules. Thats why the early US porn industry was much connected to organised crime. Its also why Ogg and the Ogg video work (and VP3 is going LGPL it seems) is so important. An open patent free standard at least means those who care and have the knowledge can get media not syndicated by the corporation of america. Alan